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a serious question
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Post by riddler on Sept 6, 2009 21:02:00 GMT -8
Name of player that allegedly caused problems: SS admins Date of the alleged problem behavior(s): too numerous to mention Server the the player was allegedly causing problems in: other Problem behavior allegedly observed: Imposter Witnesses: everyone on halo Screenshots or videos of alleged problem behavior: Extra information: I have a question, according to your rule 10, " You may not wear any tags other than your Spartan Snipers clan tags. If you use tags other than your §§ tags, we will consider it as renouncing your clan membership". But everone on halo has seen SS admins going under other names then treatening players for what they view as objectionable. Even on other clan servers. Do the rules apply to everyone in your clan or not?
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Post by seamonkeys on Sept 6, 2009 21:19:04 GMT -8
Riddler,
We understand your concern, but our admins and rcon holders are allowed to go undercover in order to monitor certain situations and players without being detected. There are other rules that you are not able to view on this website that state otherwise in that case, mainly for §§ member's view only. If they are in other servers other than §§} servers, they may be trailing other members of our clan, or recruits of our clan. We do not divulge the names of our undercovers because the program is just what has been said, undercover.
Now, could you be the person the "NA]" clan told us about that was spouting all kinds of stuff pretty much "anti-§§" ? Under the name "§§§§§" ? If so, please tell us what we have done to you that was so bad, or why you have such a problem. Spouting it out in a server to other people is quite immature if that was you.
Thanks
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Post by riddler on Sept 7, 2009 19:34:52 GMT -8
Thank you for your response, now I know what to expect from this clan. Seperate but equal, two sets of rules for two groups of people.
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§§}unholy1
 §§ RCon Holder
[ico31(1)][P:0]^#Recruit_br#Ratio_TL_br
Posts: 495
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Post by §§}unholy1 on Sept 7, 2009 19:56:43 GMT -8
ok riddler let me ask you this. do you enjoy getting spawned killed ? or cussed at repeatedly ? or do you want to go into a server where you can actually play the game, like you wanted to do when you first got the game and entered the multi-players aspect of it ? that's basically what us rcon holders try to provide for our fellow halo players. a place where they can almost enjoy themselves and play a decent game . but if you don't like that time of game, if you enjoy getting spawn killed at every turn or getting cussed at by some little 11 year-old that doesn't have adult supervision at that particular moment, well there are plenty of other halo servers out there, you don't have to come to ours.
ok thats my 2 cents worth.
nuff said
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Post by SDT zs] Papi on Sept 7, 2009 20:32:41 GMT -8
Ok Riddler, this is not my clan and maybe I am over stepping my welcome but I feel I need to say something to you about this topic.
I am a former Admin of a clan that I retired from... I too agree with the SS Staff here, you have to understand, that if there is an SS member in a server, people will act differently... when the SS member leaves the people start to be lets say "not the most honorable player". So it is normal for EVERY clan to go in undercover, to watch players, to do what is needed to make the server more player friendly.
If you find a clan that does not... I say that clan is not doing their job.....
When I was #3 in the clan I was in, I would go in undercover just so I could play, sometimes people would bug the dog snot out of you just because you were wearing clan tags, I would monitor members to make sure they abided by clan rules, I would monitor suspect players, there are many reasons.
It is a shame that it has to be done, it takes away from play time that the Admin person has available... I used to call it "baby sitting".... was one of the worst parts of being at that level in a clan.
If you feel that undercover staff is wrong then you have no real clue what it takes to run a clan and clan servers...
Give these people a break, they don't charge you for playing, it is setup free of charge, try playing wow, monthly access fees etc...
Be thankful that there are good clans like this one, that have dedicated servers for you to play on or you would be playing on your buddies server that has pings off the chart and no one cares who cheats or plays without honor...
Just my 2 cents...
Peace....
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Post by riddler on Sept 7, 2009 22:19:05 GMT -8
My two cents in response. This game is M rated for a reason. If you want to make it rated for children I suggest you try another game. To have a posted set of rules that you expect others to play by, and ignore those same rules yourself. Show it for what it is, a sham. Do as I say not as I do. For a clan so heavily entrenched in rules, it seems like a small thing to ask the admins to play by the same ones.
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§§}Church
 Clan Leader
 [P:1500]^#Recruit_br#Recruit_slvr#Recruit_gold#Recruit_pr#Ratio_TL_br#Surv_TL_br#Marathon_bronze#Marksman_bronze#CS_Meritorious#Bomber_bronze
R.I.P. Merlin 7/1/2010. Forever Missed, Always Loved![x=wyattl]
Posts: 4,412
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Post by §§}Church on Sept 7, 2009 23:33:39 GMT -8
Yes, it is rated M, however, it is still not necessary to do things like cuss or use racist language. There are younger people on the servers, and even the adults enjoy a clean environment in which to get away from the stress of everyday life. To ensure that we have such a place to go to, we have clearly posted rules and we enforce them. When there are no §§ members visible in the server, the miscreants come out. The staff use fake names and other tricks to catch the rule breakers to keep the server clean at ALL times. All clans that I have ever seen that do well have staff that police their servers under cover, while the ones that fail, or lose respect in the eyes of the community don't have a set of enforced rules. As for the staff not following the rules, I have not seen one staff member break any of the rules in my history with the clan.
On another note, if you don't like our rules, don't play in our servers. We don't force anyone to play, its voluntary.
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§§}Death
 Forum Moderator
[ico26(1)] [P:0]^#Recruit_br
Of course i'm the sleepy god of riddles; what else did you expect??
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Post by §§}Death on Sept 8, 2009 1:57:30 GMT -8
the ratings on games and movies mean almost nil to anyone people 6+ play halo, im 15 and i watch R movies.
i do beleive the enviroment of a game in which the servers are run by people mature enough to realise that you dont have to swear to have fun.
name one clan that is a good clan, with many members that does NOT enforce its rules, use undercovers to catch the nasties, and i will be shocked.
you say our admins disabide by the rules? on the contrary we enforce them. even more so on our very members, as they represent our clan, we dont wont them belittling us. if there are specific people in our clan who are doing the wrong thing: SIMPLE: take a screenshot post on our thread with this evidence and make a valid complaint. show me a screenshot of the admins misbehaving. or where is the proof of your claims.
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Post by SDT zs] Papi on Sept 8, 2009 3:15:21 GMT -8
My two cents in response. This game is M rated for a reason. If you want to make it rated for children I suggest you try another game. To have a posted set of rules that you expect others to play by, and ignore those same rules yourself. Show it for what it is, a sham. Do as I say not as I do. For a clan so heavily entrenched in rules, it seems like a small thing to ask the admins to play by the same ones. Ok, let me say it this way.... Follow the rules... If you cant or don't like them, there are many places to play where you can play as you wish... OR you can run your own dedicated server, tie up a pc for nothing but servers if you want it to run good or pay for a server service. Then you can dictate what rules are and what is enforced, and how people play... You are talking about SS Clan Servers, that are put up free of charge, you are asked to follow rules etc... Just do it or move on. |
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§§}unholy1
§§ RCon Holder
[ico31(1)][P:0]^#Recruit_br#Ratio_TL_br
Posts: 495
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Post by §§}unholy1 on Sept 8, 2009 3:51:03 GMT -8
some people just dont understand, its like they have blinders on
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§§}Associus
Forum Coder
[ico27(1)] [P:0]^#Recruit_br#Recruit_slvr#Recruit_gold#Ratio_BG_br#Ratio_TL_br#Marathon_bronze#CS_Meritorious
I'm an incorrigible punster. Don't incorrige me![x=ledpoisnin]
Posts: 3,145
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Post by §§}Associus on Sept 8, 2009 4:35:28 GMT -8
My two cents in response. This game is M rated for a reason. If you want to make it rated for children I suggest you try another game. To have a posted set of rules that you expect others to play by, and ignore those same rules yourself. Show it for what it is, a sham. Do as I say not as I do. For a clan so heavily entrenched in rules, it seems like a small thing to ask the admins to play by the same ones. The game is likely rated M for two reasons. First and largely it is rated M for the content of the single player portion of the game. Secondly it is probably rated M also to protect the Bungie software from lawsuits from concerned parents due to their children being exposed to people acting like jerks with no moral conscience in the multi-player portion of the game.
The following quote is from Riddler's PM to me. First, you have a mis-perception here. You are assuming that the higher ranks are not following the rules. The rule is as follows:
10. You may not wear any tags other than your Spartan Snipers clan tags. If you use tags other than your §§ tags, we will consider it as renouncing your clan membership.
Notice it says you may not wear any tags other than your Spartan Snipers clan tags. It does not say that clan members must wear their tags or must always use their clan name. Second, we do prefer that clan members wear their clan tags and clan names as when they do so and exhibit good behavior it helps to promote our clan and generate a sense of team. Third, let me address your concern about deterring bad behavior. I assume from your comment about no one speeding past a marked police car acts as a deterrent. You conveniently leave out that the police regularly as part of their deterrent efforts use unmarked police vehicles as well. Yes, people tend to behave better in our servers when they see known RCon holders or tagged clan members in our servers but those that act better when we are around will misbehave when we "are not" around. Hence we have a hole in our deterrent efforts. Going undercover provides us a way to catch people that will misbehave when they do not think anyone is watching. Then when we have to kick or ban them, they receive a consequence for intentionally misbehaving. In human interactions, people would rarely behave according to the rules unless they knew that their is always a chance of undesired consequences if they do not follow the rules. By going undercover and enforcing our rules, the intent is not to punish, it is to first deter misbehavior, second (hopefully) correct misbehavior and third to completely eliminate the presence of people who habitually or egregiously misbehave. If you are a person that believes in following the rules and does abide by them, then I cannot for the life of me understand why you would worry about whether there are undercover RCon holders or staff members in the servers or not. The only reasons I can think of where someone might truly object to it would be where 1) someone has been caught and disciplined for misbehavior by an undercover RCon holder, 2) someone wants to break the rules but is afraid of getting caught, or 3) someone resents that someone else has a privilege and power that he or she does not possess. I do welcome well intentioned and constructive questioning of our methods or rules as it can help us to improve and grow. However, I will not condone or tolerate unnecessary agitating. Be careful that you do not cross that line. The following was not addressed in my PM response to Riddler so I will add it here. Actually I feel you have already crossed the line mentioned above, but am willing to let it go if you do not persist in intentionally agitating with the use of inflammatory words like "sham" and other inflammatory words and phrases. I've already addressed your mis-perception about what this rule says. However I will further address your question as you appear to have another mis-perception here. Actually, the higher the rank our members attain, the higher the standards we hold them to. I have insisted on this as I feel that it is important for us to set a good example for those of lower rank. Also with higher rank comes greater privilege but that privilege comes with the price of higher standards of conduct, greater responsibility and greater accountability. This has caused some friction within our ranks when people get passed over for promotions due to their behaviors or interpersonal interactions not being up to the level we expect of our leadership even though they are otherwise following the rules and actively contributing to our clan. Sometimes we lose members over this, but I do feel that in the long run it is in the best interests of our clan to expect a higher standard of our higher ranking members. |
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§§}Animal
§§ RCon Holder
[ico0(1)][P:0]^#Recruit_br#Ratio_BG_br#Ratio_TL_br#Marathon_bronze#Marksman_bronze
Run if you intend to survive, For the beast is coming to life.[x=mulcibur]
Posts: 1,506
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Post by §§}Animal on Sept 8, 2009 11:25:06 GMT -8
This morning I hopped into SS1 which at the time had about 13-16 players and when I entered a person said,"Ugh, one of the SS guys is here". I ignored it at the time and didn't have any problems while I was in the server but I had to wonder why that was said and what was going on before I entered. This is why the staff go under-cover, because like the others have said, people behave differently when there's someone who can possibly deliver consequences.
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Post by SDT zs] Papi on Sept 8, 2009 11:47:59 GMT -8
Howdy Doody again.
You will always have the ones that whine about an admin or full member when they join a server, sometimes because now they have to behave, other times because they dont know the mods as well as you....
What ever the reason, they will get over it..
As for Mr Riddler, I feel that there may be no helping him to understand. Its just one of those people that even if you spell it out and draw a map, they will still wonder why and not get it.
Riddler, I say this to you... Just come to terms that in any server that is attached to a clan there are rules, and there will be people monitoring in the open and undercover. If you can not accept those facts, and it bothers you that much, I suggest you go back to campain mode, and forget the online play since you will not be able to avoid it and if you break rules every clan out there will deal with that in their own manner.
Just so you know, I sometimes run a small dedi for various reasons. I dont kick people, I may warn I might not, but I always ban them, if they dont like the rules I tell them to follow I ban I dont argue and I never have an issue with that person again.
Be thankful they let you voice your thoughts, they have been very generous in that regard and have gone to great lengths to explain to you how things are in the Servers.
Other than that all I can say is I sense that the generosity is coming to an end since you fail to listen. If you like the servers, follow the rules that is all it comes down too, dont worry about what others do, just keep yourself inline and you will have no issues.
Peace...
This is my last post on this subject. good luck
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§§}Compdude
Clan Leader
[ico27(1)]Clan Founder^#Recruit_br#Recruit_slvr[P:0]
Posts: 1,080
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Post by §§}Compdude on Sept 8, 2009 13:15:24 GMT -8
Arguing this point with Riddler is fruitless, he is one of those people that argue in game that it is rated M and we shouldn't make rules to the contrary.
He's most likely only complaining because he got sniped out of the server when he thought no admins were on.
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Post by riddler on Sept 8, 2009 18:23:35 GMT -8
So many replies for such a short message. It seems I've stuck a raw nerve. It sounds like I am not the only one who has brought this subject up. Perhaps someone else such as the person who posted the complaint in the courtroom about Saleen and his cussing, Hmmm. Oh well, I can see you have closed ranks around each other in an attempt to preserve your reputation such as it is. Rave all you want to each other. I will not be returning to this forum. Have a nice day.
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Post by SDT zs] Papi on Sept 8, 2009 18:28:25 GMT -8
So many replies for such a short message. It seems I've stuck a raw nerve. It sounds like I am not the only one who has brought this subject up. Perhaps someone else such as the person who posted the complaint in the courtroom about Saleen and his cussing, Hmmm. Oh well, I can see you have closed ranks around each other in an attempt to preserve your reputation such as it is. Rave all you want to each other. I will not be returning to this forum. Have a nice day. ok I lied I am posting again.. if you check I am not clan, but I am smart enough to realize how clans and clan servers are run and what is involved, as for you I only hope that someday you mature enough to realize the same. |
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§§}¥Ô$H!
 Halo Recruiting Officer
I AM THE GREATEST...[P:0]
[x=chivo1]
Posts: 335
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Post by §§}¥Ô$H! on Sept 8, 2009 18:37:26 GMT -8
hehehehehe.... I love kids on Halo. Just one more to piss off!
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§§}Church
Clan Leader
[P:1500]^#Recruit_br#Recruit_slvr#Recruit_gold#Recruit_pr#Ratio_TL_br#Surv_TL_br#Marathon_bronze#Marksman_bronze#CS_Meritorious#Bomber_bronze
R.I.P. Merlin 7/1/2010. Forever Missed, Always Loved![x=wyattl]
Posts: 4,412
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Post by §§}Church on Sept 8, 2009 20:00:42 GMT -8
As he said he is not coming back to this thread, I am locking it before we go too far off topic.
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§§}Compdude
Clan Leader
[ico27(1)]Clan Founder^#Recruit_br#Recruit_slvr[P:0]
Posts: 1,080
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Post by §§}Compdude on Sept 8, 2009 20:37:55 GMT -8
Since you are not coming back, I'm sure you have no problems with my banning you.
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Post by seamonkeys on Sept 8, 2009 20:40:09 GMT -8
Wow, I like his detective skills. He sees a thread in the courtroom about a "saleen" cussing and automatically assumes its me, a staff member of this clan.
Riddler, you should look into the thread you read before you spout off about it. That "saleen" was an imposter and was banned. It was not me. Learn how to pick your fights with facts instead of the crap you have imagined in your head.
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), my username is spl99 (i think)